Where can you find a homeless female Veteran?

Good afternoon, evening, or morning, wherever you are. Welcome back to Love the North Podcast. My name is Michael Richardson. I'm the host as usual.(...) I am a local writer and as right now I'm working on a project transcribing my grandfather's memoirs from his experiences in World War II. And as a result of that, I've kind of picked up an interest in history and local history. And as it turns out, I discovered that there is quite an issue with a lot of our veterans here in this country. So I've started this segment to try and help anybody who is a military veteran or first responder.(...) If they're having any issues, any problems like that, maybe this will be a place that they can turn to for help. So please don't hesitate. Check out what we have to say.

this evening by a couple of very special guests that I'll introduce now. You may recognize Mike Jensen from our last segment. Hi, Michael. Thanks for having me back. Thanks for coming back.

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If you've seen the last segment, you'll know that Mike is in the process of trying to set up much needed housing for unhoused veterans at the moment.

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And we'll get into that more momentarily. I'm also joined tonight by Nico and Nikita, who are students from the University of Western Ontario down in London. They are doing some studying on the effects of homelessness on women veterans because they do face some special challenges with that. So welcome and thank you for joining us. Thanks for having us. Thank you. So as an overview, Mike, the project that you're trying to work on right now is to build a full-size apartment building to try and help house the local veterans in Sudbury who may need it. Some who either just want the camaraderie of living with like-minded people for their own feeling of safety and security, right down to people who need extra help. And there will be provisions for that hopefully within that building. So if you want to just give us a little brief overview of that for anybody that didn't see the last part. Yeah, just picking up from last week. So what we're proposing is a 60-unit apartment complex.

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We're currently getting very close to applying for government funding.(...) We're always looking for donations from the public. And so anyone that's willing to chip in for the cause, any amount is good.

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So what we're looking at right now is a series of three-bedroom, two-bedroom, one-bedroom and studio apartments. And so we'll have a mix of market rent, close to market rent. So market rent in the areas that we're looking at right now are somewhere around $3,000 to $3,200 a month. We're proposing 28,(...) that's everything included. We're hoping to have everything from utilities to parking included.

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I'm talking about a two-bedroom now, $3,200 to $3,200.

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The affordable, we'll have a number of affordable units. They'll be in the neighbourhood of 15 to sort of 1,750 a month. We're still doing the math on all of that.

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So I'm giving a range of numbers and these are for two bedrooms. So three bedrooms is going to be a little more.

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Studio and one bedroom is going to be a lot less. Again, they're all inclusive of utilities.(...) And then we'll have the deeply subsidized for those folks that are struggling to make ends meet. You know, you're financially trying to figure out, if you're not making a lot of money, it's hard to find a place to live. What we know and all the studies point out is(...) for physical and mental health wellbeing, you need to have a secure place to live.(...) And so what we're proposing is to take that part of the journey to wellness out of the picture. We'll have a building with first responders and veterans. I should put a poke in right now for a PTSD walk and awareness on Saturday. Maybe should have talked about this last week.

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So the Greater Shelby Police Service is putting on a walk for PTSD on Saturday.

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And I'm hopeful, Michael, I might get somebody from that to come in and talk to you about their journey on PTSD. They have some representatives. So stand by for that. Yeah. So today, what we're sort of talking about is how do veterans find themselves homeless or close to homeless? Might be a couch surfing, living in a car, living with family, just really can't afford to make ends meet on their own. And how does a veteran get in that situation? So before I get along too far, there's a study from McGill University that I kind of, you know,(...) follow. There's a lot of good information on homelessness and veteran in the veteran community. You know, today's day and age, you just do a couple of Google searches and everything comes up. So I stumbled on this one from McGill. It's very well done.

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I learned a lot on why someone in a veteran capacity might find themselves homeless. There's a few bullets there. I'm just going to kind of go down through them. But specifically, what we talked about was in a government's standpoint, a lack of single point of leadership. And so one sort of group to take all under their umbrella. So you get little stabs of, you know, different parts of the community, different parts of government. They're all trying to do their best, but it ends up as a sort of a hodgepodge of services and segments of assistance. Well, the frustration that a veteran must feel that it's finally get up to strength to ask for the help in the first place. And then to get, "Oh, I'm sorry. You have to call this number." Yeah. And then if that's incorrect, they get, "Oh, I'm sorry. You have to call this number." By that time, they just say the hell with it. That's an excellent example of how somebody could get frustrated. And veterans get frustrated pretty easy, especially if you're, you know, if you're suffering with mental illness or, you know, and you've had the run around before, you know, things just aren't working out for you. It's easy to get in a spot where you just, you don't bother trying anymore.

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Discrepancy on numbers is another bullet point that McGill talks about. So how many homeless veterans are out there? How many veterans are out there?

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So McGill's study indicates anywhere from 2,500 to maybe as many as 10,000. And so that includes, like we talked about, living with family and couch surfing and that sort of thing. Not outright, I'm living on the streets. Here in Sudbury, we know that by name, this is close to 500 at times or more. And, you know, somewhere in the magnitude of 10 to 20 are veterans. So there's quite a number for sure.(...) The third bullet point that McGill talks about is meaning the definition of a veteran. And so when I talk to the social workers, the client navigators, the ones that are out on the street, literally talking to folks that are living on the street, we advise them, don't ask if they're a veteran. Ask if they have military service.(...) And then hand that over with a little bit of information to the experts. We'll vet that and find out if they truly are a veteran. And that's the beginning of the process. So we advise people, don't ask if you're a veteran. A veteran is my grandfather that served in D-Day, right in the second world war. That's generally what members of the public think is a veteran. The standard for a veteran by Veterans Affairs is graduated basic training and successfully, sorry, honorably discharged.(...) So that's the bar to meet in today's society. They had to decide what makes a veteran and that's the classic definition.

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Reluctance to self-identify is another one. So that sort of gets to don't ask if you're a veteran. Ask if, you know, it gets along that same bullet line. Fails to meet the needs of women and that's why Nikita and Niko are here today. I won't spend a whole lot of time on that because they've got a lot of information they're going to share. It had inadequate support during transition. So I remember when I got out, I did my release in North Bay. I was like, just sign those papers. I'm done. Like I want out, right? And I'll figure the rest out when I get there. Well, it doesn't always work out for a veteran to figure it out when they get there. They just know they don't want to do that anymore. And now they're out on possibly on the street if they haven't got plan B.(...) In recruiting, I always ask the recruits, you know, I want to join the infantry. I'm like, oh, nice. What's plan B? What do you mean plan B?(...) What if you don't get in the forces? I want to know what your plan is. Parents were usually very thankful for me to ask that because only when I was recruiting, only one in 10 actually got a job offer. So of all 10 people that we were involved in recruiting, only one would get a job offer. So that's nine other plan Bs, right?(...) And so I always made the effort to make sure there was another plan.

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One of the last bullet points before we move it over to Nikito,

Organizations face challenges through financing.(...) Yes. Financing is a big thing.(...) So how do you put a 60 unit apartment complex together that houses veterans and first responders?

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Some of the politicians that I've talked to, they said, well, why don't you just fill the building with veterans? Well, first of all, you got to find them. Yeah, what building?

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If we build, I got to find, you know,(...) somewhere in the neighbourhood of 120 to 150 veterans.

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I can't even count that in many veterans. So first responders, because they,(...) in a similar line of work, they're in a uniform marching in a pair of boots, they suffer PTSD,(...) anxiety and all the things that come along with working on the front line. It was a natural sort of gravitation to include that segment.

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And together, I think we can really combat this.

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One of the biggest hurdles is the stigma of housing a veteran and, you know, moving people off the street.(...) We talked last week about the formal way that Brandon and Ray, who you guys went to meet this week, the homelessness network here, Brandon is tasked with helping out veterans.(...) And so, you know, they sort of move them off the street into a motel, get them the physical and mental supports and wraparound services that they need. And then they moved them into a more permanent housing. So that's what we're proposing is we're not handling any of the social services aspect. Lots of professionals are willing to do that. What we're willing to say is when a veteran, first responder, whoever is ready to move into a permanent housing,(...) age in place, we call it, we'll have the space available.

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Anyways, that's a bit about our project.

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What a different angle, one that may not even occur to people.

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Specifically male people, myself included. Growing up, there weren't a lot of women in the military. So to hear that, of course, there would be a different set of challenges. So you guys have been studying the effects of this on women veterans. And we'd like to turn the floor over to you. I hope I'm not cutting you off. No, I was hopeful. I was hopeful.

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I mean, this is this is astounding. I'm very impressed to hear that this is being studied at the university level. I think it's something that definitely needs the microscope put to it. And I'm glad that you guys have taken up the torch. So please let me know what it is that your overview and what you've discovered thus far. Yeah, it does need the microscope looking at it. There is a lack of literature when it comes to looking at the experiences of women who have experienced homelessness, especially women veterans.(...) And so that's what our study follows.

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It's a national study out of Western University. And we're working with Dr. Cheryl Fortchuck, who's done a lot of research on veteran homelessness and homelessness in general. And this particular study was based off of us looking at the literature and going, where are the experiences of women veterans? And we haven't found any, or we found very little. And they're based out of the US or Australia or the UK. So this is the first study of its kind in Canada. And we want to, we're looking to interview women veterans with experience of homelessness, housing insecurity, financial insecurity, just to understand their experiences and ask them, what do you think worked to help you get out of homelessness once you were, once you were out of homelessness? What worked? What didn't work? If you were to design a program, what services would you include? What would you not include?

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And ideally, this would lead to policy change and policy improvement down the line. So by policy change, you're talking on the federal level, prevention level, or all of the above?(...) We're thinking all of the above. It is a national study. So we're trying to get to every province and territory in Canada. And at the end of it, we do have ties with Infrastructure Canada, and we're able to give them recommendations for policy change and for program implementation. You do have their ear. Yes. Okay. So it's not just going to sit on the shelf when it's done. This is an active investigation kind of thing. That's fantastic. Yeah, absolutely. What have been the biggest challenges other than the fact that you're breaking ground here?

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I think some of the challenges with the project so far. I think when we think of Warren Veterans and maybe Nico can speak to this as well, it's very difficult to find them.(...) And I know you mentioned it as well. There's 400,000. Yeah. Let's find them. Yeah. Right. And now find a smaller segment. Yeah. Women, right? So NRCMP as well. Yes.(...) So Nico and Nikita are looking for R-CMP. There's up in the north as well. So anyone who has had basic military training, served the country, were looking to interview. But one of the challenges is finding a veteran. Sorry, service. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And service as well. Yes. Yeah. So that classic definition that I talked about, right? Rather than saying veteran, military service. So that encompasses reserves as well as reg force.(...) And do you find it how difficult is it to get them to speak to them? Have there been challenges in that regard? There has. There has. And we do offer in-person interviews as well as over the phone and Zoom interviews.(...) But what we find that is a lot of solutions for homelessness that are implemented right now, like the shelter system, living on the street with other groups, may not work for a woman veteran who has maybe kids with them, who's a little bit older or who is super young and doesn't feel like they would fit in with the group in the shelter.(...) So a lot of the time, and last year when I was working on the project as well, we found that a lot of women veterans are living off-grid on their own or living in forests, for example. So that makes it a little bit challenging. And especially when you're thinking about off-grid,(...) it's hard for them. It's hard for us to say, come in for a telephone interview, you know, come in for a Zoom interview. Absolutely. Yeah.(...) Yeah. I think that's wonderful that you brought up(...) quite a few great points. I think the other one that we emphasize, and just speaking with Mike as well the other day,

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just that, yeah, there's a lot of veterans that don't even realize that there's veterans and that they are veterans. And there isn't really that push to tell them, okay, well, if you've completed basic training, you are considered a veteran. That's one thing. And then another thing,(...) we also had a chat about how veterans can be proud, and there might be stigma of, okay, you're couch surfing or you've got that financial insecurity and you might not want to reach out and seek help or even self-identify that you are a veteran. So all those kind of come together and can make it a little challenging. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Because you touched on something there with the pride,(...) sort of. I mean, they're brought up to a system that is there to empower them, that has trained them to be self-sufficient and all that kind of self-inner strength. Now they're in this situation,(...) they probably blame themselves, so they want to recess on that.

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And then by the time they do find them, like I said, build up the strength to ask for help. If they get any kind of runaround, they'll be very quick to say, "To hell with it, I'll figure this out," or something like that. But I mean, to be in that position, and you want to add to that a little side of PTSD(...) or anything that they've experienced from their service, I mean, that just complicates things. There's been a lot of response in that regard. We've found a lot of veterans that have the mental illness. Yes.

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Specifically with women veterans, we have found in the past, and I don't want to speak to any specific interview that we've had, but with their military training, a lot of their PTSD comes from their time in the military, especially with such a male-dominated career in a male-dominated field.(...) And they do carry that with them. And that's why when I spoke to the majority of them, or a lot of them not being comfortable in the shelter system or around large groups of other men,(...) we really need to design services and programs that work for them.(...) For example, a single male bachelor who was a veteran and who had served,(...) a solution might work for them,(...) a home in an apartment that's a one-bedroom, for example, but it might not work for a woman who has kids with them, two or three kids, recently separated. So the survey on the website, Michael, we talked a bit about, one of the questions is how many bedrooms would you, do you think you need? And I have had two or three single female veterans

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fill out the survey, and they generally want a two or three bedroom because they have kids. Right? So try to make ends meet with three kids. Now I'm separated or divorced. And so the best they can hope for is affordable or at least help, if not affordable, may be subsidized. And so I'm seeing that in the survey in just a short period of time. So if there's a very small amount of, like a subset of data here in Sudbury, you know that that's just scratching the surface nationally.(...) Yeah. Yeah.(...) And the needs are there. Much of this could be cut off at the pass, if you will, if they had, instead of here, sign these papers and there's the door, if there was a little bit of preparation to this, because I think just the notion that there are any veterans homeless just kind of really angers up the blood quite a bit. So as part of those policy changes, it has to start, I would say, at the military from the day that they are leaving, there should be a preparation course, like what is your plan?(...) The world has changed since you signed on your way in, perhaps, like depending on how long you've been there. My father was in for 26 years. It was a different world when he came out. And even five years inside of that mechanism, the military is its own world. And I'm sure firefighters and police officers and ambulance attendants kind of, you're drawn into your own world and you stay there. That's where you function. And when you come out, it's a culture shock. There's no other way to say it.(...) It just, like you said, to have

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couple that with, I have my children with me. I couldn't, I couldn't cope. I would probably lose my mind too. So again, I'm really happy that you guys are doing this for the first, it's 2026. And this is the first study in Canadian history. It's kind of almost irritating, but I'm so glad that you guys have picked up this man. So what's next steps for you guys?

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Yeah. So Nikita and I were, we're here for the summer specifically, and then we go, we go back to school. So this is a summer research training program, I live in medical school at Western.(...) But in terms of the team,(...) so we're looking to recruit 120 participants total on the study.(...) So we've been to, the team's been to every single province and every single territory except for,(...) Yukon and Nunavut. And they're, you're going, I will be going July 6th to 11th to Nunavut. And then I think we have plans in the place to go to Yukon as well. But we need a separate research license for the territories as well. So yeah. How big is the team? Sorry.(...) That's a good question. I want to see. There's new people getting added every day. Yeah, that's awesome. I think we have our broader research team. I want to see, we have 15 people. Yeah, I was going to say around that. And then maybe on this project,

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five to seven. Okay. So, so quite a few. And, and I believe that, that the plan is so,(...) to just keep going back to those, to the different provinces and the territories and, and whatnot, and just trying to do these outreach trips. They're, they're a big part of, of how we can recruit participants and just connect with any social services in town. Like a mic was tremendous, getting us in touch with a few services and just sitting down with them and telling them, look, if you can,(...) here's some posters, here's some information, just be on the lookout for anyone that might be interested.(...) And it's, it's just a lot of payment for lack of a, of a better word. Yeah. I don't know if you've got, I think I may have mentioned before, it is a four year longitudinal study. So we're in our fourth year now and we're looking maybe to elongate the study if we don't have enough women veterans. But yes, our goal is 120.(...) And then we will publish the study after that. And I'm hoping it'll be a very big landmark study after that, because it is the first one in Canada. How close are you to the 120?(...) We are around 50 right now. So which shows just the challenges of, of finding and interviewing women veterans across Canada.(...) So likely we're looking to elongate the study for now. And the subscript to that is experiencing or. Yes. Homelessness. Experiencing, homelessness, yeah. Financial insecurity, housing. And so back to what does that mean, right? What does it mean to be a veteran? Well, military service is best to say. What is homeless or experiencing homelessness? It's living with family members, couch surfing. I'm on the car, I'm living in the bush, I'm in a tent. You know, it's those sorts of things. So to identify that segment, it can be difficult. And now you're, I imagine dealing with a segment of the population that isn't up on global media, right? They're not on Google all day long and they're not looking at the news and they're not looking at. So yeah, or they're off the grid, no access to wifi. Imagine a challenge. Yeah. Yeah.

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Well, we may not be able to reach them directly, but if anybody out there knows of a veteran, particularly women that are experiencing homelessness or having any of those issues will link the contact information available. Please reach out to them, reassure them that this is a strictly benign process. Nobody is looking to hurt anybody.(...) We just want to help. We want to set these policies up that they can be done properly from the word go to try to avoid this in the future.(...) I'd really love to have you guys come back. Perhaps by the end of the summer, we can compare notes and see how you've made out, see if there's anything else we can do. Hopefully our viewership will blow up between now and then and we can reach more people and help as many as we can.(...) Again, my heart really does go out to all of you. I think what you're doing, all of you is, is absolutely amazing. And I wish you all the success in the world.(...) Yeah. Please. We need to do this again and just keep the word going. I mean, I'll have you back every week. If you've got news that you'd want to share, please just let us know. I'd love to be as supportive as we can. And Mike, of course, we're going to check back with you frequently to see where you're at. Next time you're in, we'll start talking about the funding and what the next steps are and where to go from there. I can't thank you all enough for being here tonight. And I really appreciate all the time and effort that you're putting in. And it's going to make a huge impact. I'm sure God bless y'all. I don't know what else to say. Yeah. Thank you so much for that,(...) Michael. Thanks for having us.(...) And yeah, just wanted to say, again, so grateful for being here. Grateful to Mike as well for inviting us on.(...) And really grateful to all the people that we talked to for the last few days.(...) And grateful and blessed to be in the city of Sudbury. Everybody's been so welcoming. So it's been a wonderful experience. And we're really hoping that we can have some tangible success out of it. Yeah, absolutely. Thank

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